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November 05, 2008

Comments

Alastair

Great post!

hitchface

Awesome post! I am so happy to hear people with that message. I am a Christian Obama supporter, and I will be praying FOR both him and McCain, not against them. Bless and not curse!

Doug Heim

Thanks Tim!!! Pat and I have been struggling with how to process this years election, and this certainly helps us...

We certainly struggle with the abortion and same sex issues, and not necessarily the person...

We know God is in control and His Will has to be the foremost important factor in all of this... As a nation, we must remain strong and together, and with post like yours, I see no reason why anyone would want anything differently...

Michele

Great post, Tim. Like you said, I don't think those of us who didn't experience the hate firsthand can fully comprehend what this means to so many people who never thought they would ever see this in their lifetime. I sat with chills as I watched tears streaming down their faces. Amazing.

Ashley Smith

Tim, Maybe this is a question for Q&A Bible Study night, but reading the verses that you've listed above, did God put Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Castro, and Hitler in charge? And if I lived in the country where any of those men were leaders, would God want me to honor them? I'm HONESTLY asking these questions, not trying to be contentious OR trying to compare Obama to those leaders. Just wanting to properly interpret the verses. Can you help?

Tim

Great question, Ashley!

Let's build up a little bit of a foundation (& double-check the verses on me!)...

God gives kingdoms to whoever he chooses (Daniel 4:25).

God puts down one leader & exalts another (Psalm 75:6-7).

Sometimes, God puts the "basest" of people in leadership roles (Daniel 4:17).

A great example of this is Pharoah [who is a wicked leader] that God exalts because He wants to show His power in bringing him down (Exodus 9:16-17).

Another example is God raising up Cyrus for His purposes (allowing Israel to rebuild their temple), even though Cyrus doesn't even know the true God (Isaiah 44:28-45:6).

A final example is that God inspired the command "Honor the king" through Peter (i.e. in 1 Peter 2:17). So, who was king at the time? Nero! This is the emperor who was so wicked that he crucified & burned a multitude of Christians to light a road by night. But that's the SAME guy God told Peter to "honor."

Based on this study, therefore, "honoring" a leader does NOT mean you agree with them, or even obey them if they command you to break God's law... it simply means you treat them with honor & respect for the POSITION they hold (regardless of whether you agree with them as individuals).

Does that help, Ashley?

Disagree

I have a hard time believing God put Obama in charge...

Was what happened Tuesday God's will? I am quite confident it was not. America was offered a very clear choice between moving further toward protecting the unborn or further away; between a Supreme Court that would move toward honoring God, life and morality or away from it. The stakes couldn't have been higher nor the cost greater. As a nation we put on blinders concerning Barak Obama's background, associations, beliefs and practices, and set these causes back years, possibly decades.
And in doing so we took another step away from God and His plans for America, and another step toward judgment.

vicki

If God doesn't allow the appointment of bad leaders, how shall his profecy of the anti-Christ be fullfilled?

Ashley Smith

Tim-
Read the verses that you refer to, and do believe that God uses ANYONE HE PLEASES to carry out His plans. I can definitely honor the position of the presidency, be proud of my country that a minority can be elected President, and pray that Obama seeks God's will with all of his heart. But I find it very hard to be excited about someone who has no regard for human life and simply does not understand that our Constitution was written to cage in government, not to unleash it on citizens.
Vicki-
The discussion was not about God ALLOWING the appointment of bad leaders, it was about God actually doing the appointing. Good discussion, guys.

Tim

I love this discussion too!

It seems that the topic has led us to the SAME theological discussion that Israel was having in the book of Habakkuk.

The debate was this: "How could a righteous God, even IF he knew that HIS people (Israel) were not righteous, how could He be a part of allowing/ordaining a WORSE people (the Babylonians) to exert influence over His people? SURELY a righteous God would NEVER be a part of that!!!"

But read the book of Habakkuk!

In Chapter 1, God tells Habakkuk He was "working a work...which you would not believe" in bringing the Babylonians to power.

In Chapter 2, Habakkuk is stunned to hear that God's people who do injustice, receive back EXACTLY what they did to others (the law of sowing & reaping).

In Chapter 3, all Habakkuk can do is be "afraid" of God's power & wisdom, then "rejoice" in God's salvation & strength.

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